In this episode of The Future Of, Alex Foessel, Managing Partner at Balanced Engineering, joins host Jeff Dance to discuss the future of agriculture. They explore the role of robotics, autonomous machines, satellite connectivity, and generative AI in enhancing agricultural operations and feeding the increasing population. Additionally, Alex dives into the role of regulations and standardizations for AgTech.

Alex Foessel – 00:00:01:

Having real-time connectivity is a game changer. And you may have heard, for example, of the recent agreement between Starlink and John Deere. But that is not the only one. The other OEMs are also taking the steps to integrate these low-orbit satellite constellation space communications. So now you have the ability to see in real time how the operation is performing. And then you can start making in real-time decisions.

Jeff Dance – 00:00:28:

Welcome to The Future Of, a podcast by Fresh Consulting, where we discuss and learn about the future of different industries, markets, and technology verticals. Together, we’ll chat with leaders and experts in the field and discuss how we can shape the future human experience. I’m your host, Jeff Dance. In this episode of The Future Of, we’re joined by Alex Foessel, an agriculture technology innovation leader with a background that includes nearly 20 years globally at John Deere, working on their smart machines and automation and autonomy programs. And we’re here to explore the future of agriculture. Alex, if I can give you the brief intro, I know you’ve contributed to six U.S. patents. You co-authored two books on autonomy. You’ve been cited widely in autonomous systems literature. You’re recognized as an expert. I know you’ve been speaking at conferences recently. There’s an upcoming conference. People recognize all the expertise that you have, that you also have two decades of experience developing and actually commercializing autonomous robotic solutions, particularly at John Deere. You hold a PhD in robotics from Carnegie Mellon, which is one, if not the leading robotics university here in the U.S., today, Alex is a managing partner at Balanced Engineering, a company that builds engineering solutions for agriculture of Off-Road Machinery Manufacturers. Interestingly, he also owns a Cattleranch in Patagonia, Chile, and volunteers with organizations like Amcham Brazil, where he co-leads the Agribusiness Strategic Committee. That’s a bit of an intro to you, Alex, but I’d love to hear more about your journey if you can share a bit more with the listeners.

Alex Foessel – 00:02:07:

Absolutely, and thank you, Jeff. So, well, you mentioned the ranch, and this is something that we still operate as a family. That is where I grew up in Patagonia, Chile, where we raise cattle. It’s a cow and calf operation. We have been investing significantly in technology of different types, but mostly genetics, to really get the herd to be the best herd that can actually take advantage of the pastures in that very remote location. But after studying engineering in Chile, then I decided to immigrate into the United States, and Carnegie Mellon appeared to be, as mentioned, a really good school. So I applied to that as well as others, but Carnegie Mellon, because of the focus in a really multidisciplinary field, which is robotics, caught my attention. That really focused on space robotics and field robotics, but that laid the foundation to start thinking how we can actually make these different machines in ag, construction, etc., more automated, and try to mitigate a little bit this, labor scarcity that is prevailing in most of the developed world. John Deere was a fantastic company to work for. I have just one word for John Deere, which is gratitude. And after working in a number of projects in the U.S., I had the opportunity to lead the commercialization of Tango, an autonomous robotic lawnmower, in most of Western Europe. Which came with a number of challenges. After that, I spent five years in Brazil, and that’s why you will hear me talk often about Brazil, which is a land of opportunity. And together with the U.S. and the Americas, they become the two giants, Argentina as well, in production of grains. And in 2010, Rick Weiss and I, both we were working together in a team that was focused on automation and autonomy in John Deere to leave the company and start Balance Engineering with a vision of helping industry solve this challenge of how do you go from machines with an operator to autonomous machines and tackling some of the architecture, safety, and adoption challenges. So that led to Balance, and a number of others who have joined our team, both in the U.S. as well as in Brazil, and we’re serving a number of other companies.

Jeff Dance – 00:04:27:

You know, John Deere has been a pioneer in ag autonomy. If you go back and look at the history, they helped create GPS with NASA, or at least that in Ag, a lot of use there. And then I thought they partnered with Stanford for RTK GPS, which is the more precise GPS that supports, you know, autonomy programs and stuff like that. Were you actually part of that innovation team that helped develop RTK, or did you just benefit from the innovation that happened there?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:04:51:

I would say that I benefited the most because even though I joined that particular John Deere location that had all of the RTK technology and also Starfire network design, and I’m talking about Snap-on technology out in Torrance, California, I was focused much more on the robotics side. So we were taking advantage of that technology. And even with the team developing additional localization, precise localization technologies for indoors, but effectively just taking that and automating stadium mowers, automating golf course mowers, providing architecture and path planning elements for other applications as well, such as mostly in turf, but also in Ag.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:05:31:

Tell me about this Cattleranch. Do you actually employ any AgTech there at the ranch? You mentioned some of the bio side.

 

Alex Foessel – 00:05:37:

Yes, we have, but maybe it’s not the same ag tech in which I am working, right? So I would say that there are a few things. So, of course, we have the more traditional equipment like tractors, balers, rakes, etc. But then we use a lot of genetics. We have imported significant amount of new breeds from the U.S., that match our needs better. In fact, if I can make a little bit of a joke here, because I’m sure that we’re going to be talking about AI as artificial intelligence. But I got to know the term earlier as artificial insemination.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:06:10:

I bet. That was the first one.

 

Alex Foessel – 00:06:12:

Yeah, that was the first one. Artificial intelligence came later. It’s interesting that they have the same two letters, right? But then we also use quite a bit of electric fences. And I’m going to mention one more thing. We’re investing heavily in, with the help of experts, in regenerative grazing, which is a way to manage the interaction between the herd and the pastures, where you maximize the sequestration, the capture and sequestration of carbon in the soil in order to get additional revenue, like selling carbon credits.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:06:46:

Very interesting. Sounds like a cool place where you can test a lot of your technology that you’ve been working with over the last 20 years or more. So tell me what else you do for fun.

 

Alex Foessel – 00:06:55:

I travel quite a bit, but then more specifically, I’m a private pilot. You will find often me flying to places. Last Sunday, I had a few friends here in Pittsburgh, so I flew them to fly over the Niagara Falls. That was a fantastic aerial view, and then we landed and just had lunch and walked closer to the falls. So aviation has been really a way that has enabled me to get to know America by flying to all kinds of cities.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:07:22:

Oh, that sounds awesome. Well, I’d like to talk a little bit more about the current state of ag tech right now and specifically autonomy since you have so much expertise there and then kind of shift to the future. But just to set some of the landscape, the Ag market and industry is just so huge worldwide. It’s one of the biggest. It’s supposed to grow to almost $5 trillion in 2028. And the World Bank had reported that the growth in Ag, the Ag sector is two to four times more effective in actually raising incomes among the poorest people compared to kind of other sectors since there’s still a lot of people like working in that sector. And we also expect populations to grow. So we need more and more food. And so this is sort of like a rising tide. As you think about the current state of the industry and all this demand that’s going to be growing, but also the rising operational costs, the shrinking labor pool, environmental changes, what are you seeing as the biggest opportunities and problems today in Ag in general?

Alex Foessel – 00:08:19:

Thank you. And you did cover very well. Let me add a couple numbers, right? So depending on the estimation, by 2050, we’re going to be somewhere around 10 billion people. So that is almost 50% growth from where we are today. So the challenge is that in most places, in most of the developed world, the area that is dedicated to agriculture actually is reducing. There’s land that is being used for housing, for highways, parks, etc. So in general, we see a trend towards shrinking. But then, okay, still, how do you get to produce, you know, 60-70% more food? And we believe that it’s going to come from still some land growth of about 20%. And that’s a, thanks to geographies like in Brazil, there are millions of hectares that can be reclaimed into agriculture without touching the Amazon, by the way, if that came to your mind. And also in Africa. So there is potential for growth, but the most potential for food production comes from technology. And agriculture has already increased yields of the most important products like corn and soybeans and others came significantly. And connect that to a point that you made earlier, from the moment that we’re using GPS in machines, whether you use it for guidance or not, now you have the ability to geotag the data. So you have operational data and you have also agronomic data. All that data now is in databases. And because it has a location and a time, now you can start building applications that are using analytics to start understanding, why the combination of soil, seed, crop care and harvesting technology that is going to get the most yield out of the land. So that is just to paint the picture here that the challenges like we’re going to get 10 billion, some may come from increasing demand, but most things going to come from increasing the yield. There are other opportunities that we can touch later. But of course, there is the logistic thing. If we can reduce the waste during transport and storage, right? That is good. And if we can become better at how we use food at the consumption point, whether it’s a restaurant or your house, also there are opportunities there to improve that. So, okay, that is more or less the big picture. But then the challenge comes from the trend of people moving is mostly from rural areas into cities. There are some subdeveloped or underdeveloped countries where you still have a lot of population in rural areas. But the more they develop, the more those people want to live in the city. So agriculture is facing a significant labor scarcity challenge. And furthermore, if you have labor with all of this newer technology, to what extent this labor is trained, right, as the knowledge to be able to use the technology and extract the most value.

Jeff Dance – 00:11:20:

Appreciate the macro picture as we’re kind of getting ready to kind of dive in deeper. That’s really helpful. As far as smart farming, as we think about this space, you started to kind of describe some of the components. What’s your definition of smart farming?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:11:34:

There’s a book that is named something like, 40 Chances. And it refers to that in the lifespan of a farmer or a cattleman, you have roughly between when you’re 25 to when you’re 65, roughly. You have 40 chances of testing how you grow crops or you raise cattle because agriculture is fundamentally annual. So up until the last couple of decades, most of the decisions in farming are based on experience. So my definition of smart farming would be whenever we’re starting to take not just personal experience of the farmer plus a couple of advisors, and instead we’re trying to get into using data and historical data from much broader operations, I believe that that’s when I would start calling that smart.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:12:28:

I know for a long time we’ve been using the word smart to mean connected to the internet. But the reality is that doesn’t mean you get the insights or the data to be useful to actually apply that to that situation. And it seems like we’re now in a position with, as you said, these growing databases, growing connectivity, and then also AI that we can actually truly be smart and we can act on those insights, right? And we can affect change versus just be collecting the data and knowing that there’s new data to look at.

 

Alex Foessel – 00:12:54:

Most people would have heard precision agriculture. And that certainly has a lot to do with smart in the sense of the precision of application. But there’s another version that has to do with precision agriculture that also ties to the smart in the sense, as you’re saying, okay, now we have connectivity, we have data, we have summaries, and we have the ability to use systems that advise us based on significantly larger databases what we should be doing.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:13:21:

We’ve worked heavily in the ag autonomy space. We’ve worked on, I think, 10 different industrial machines before trying to make them either automated or autonomous. And I’ve had some experience that that’s how we originally connected, overlapping on some work. But connectivity was always kind of tricky. Working in these outdoor spaces, working in these industrial spaces, getting something to be well-connected has always been a challenge. It’s always a little bit harder than people think to kind of say, okay, hey, I’m not just talking GPS, but I’m talking about other connectivity where you’re thinking about how to make, like you said, decisions. And be precise, especially when you’re interacting with other things, whether that be people or other objects that are in your way. You know, the advent of like the low orbit satellites like Starlink seem to be a big sea change and sort of having that sort of Wi-Fi connectivity beyond just, you know, our GPS. Are you seeing that as a significant improvement and something that people now that’s changing the ability for machines to be connected and kind of talking to each other or sending data back and forth? Are you seeing that already or do you see that’s more like something that’s to come?

Alex Foessel – 00:14:18:

It’s a game changer. And let me give you a couple of examples. So at the personal level, I would never be able to stay at the ranch for more than a week because then I wouldn’t have the connectivity to be having a conversation like you and me right now. That means that I couldn’t talk to customers. I couldn’t talk to my team. I could not just stay connected and working. We have Starlink at the ranch and now I can spend two full months without moving out of there and try to balance running balanced engineering, no pun intended, and working at the ranch and being able to go with my siblings to check the property, to help on tasks. But that’s one side. But at the other side, and it’s related to the machine themselves, having real-time connectivity is a game changer. And you may have heard, for example, of the recent agreement between Starlink and John Deere. But that is not the only one. The other OEMs are also taking the steps to integrate these low-orbit satellite constellations-based communications. So now you have the ability to see in real time. How the operation is performing? And then you can start making in real-time decisions such as, okay, if I am in a large farm in, let’s say, Brazil in Cerrado, Mato Grosso, and I need to plant 20,000 hectares, and I see that we’re running short, can make instantaneous decisions about, or ready to start procuring more equipment. Or if we have a disability of the level of humidity or any other variable, then we can more and more provide instant decisions. So it is a game changer, and I anticipate the adoption to go really fast.

Jeff Dance – 00:15:56:

Awesome. Thanks for that validation. That was my theory, but I didn’t know, so it was great to chat with the next word about it. As far as the current landscape, if we think about the biggest countries or maybe the biggest companies, who are the big players in really driving this ag tech forward? I recognize you’re an innovation leader. You have an innovative company in this space. But as you think about the big OEMs and the big countries that are trying to drive this forward, I guess everyone probably is. But what are some of the major players that come to mind as we think about the current landscape?

Alex Foessel – 00:16:23:

This is public information, and the main three in the U.S., I’m thinking of AGCO, Case New Holland, and John Deere. They have all made clear statements to Wall Street, to the dealer channel, and to customers of having full production system solutions for the major crops by 2030. The details vary a little bit, but nevertheless, there is a race. They put the hack there. But also, we see a large number of other companies that are also taking the steps to continue. I can see, think of Sabanto, BluewhiteRobotics. In the slower scale, there is Burro in Philadelphia, helping people, right? And also what I would call the short liners or the middle-sized companies. While they may not be with such clear declarations of intent, but certainly we know that they’re actually asking themselves, what’s our play here? And if I can add one detail there. Most people think of robotic tractors or robotic sprayers, et cetera. But not everyone, not all agriculture is large ag in the sense that you use self-propelled machinery. What I anticipate and what I have been promoting with some partners is there will be a tremendous opportunity to create smart implements that are going to be compatible with autonomous tractors. Let some build the autonomous tractors. What about the implements? They will also need sensors, processors, communications, etc. And at the end of the day, Jeff, we know that the tractor by itself is pretty useless. No one goes just fracturing, right? You have a tractor to do tillage, to do planting, to do application, etc. So I have not seen a lot of people talking about it, but I anticipate that for the implement manufacturers, that will become a significant area of opportunity, as we already saw in Agritechnica in 2023, last November in Germany.

Jeff Dance – 00:18:18:

That makes sense to me. I think at a small scale, if we think about the everyday lawn that’s being mowed, that mobile base, if it’s autonomous, could actually do a lot more than mowing a lawn. And I think if you step that up to a farm and say, hey, we have an autonomous machine that can do these things, what else can it do? What other implements can it do if you have automated routes and stuff like that? I think that I could see that being huge. And we’ve definitely worked with a few different companies that are working on just a specific problem, maybe picking rocks or something like that or spraying weed killer or something like that or testing soil. That really resonates with me that this is a big wave of almost like extensions of having good autonomy. I think another thing you mentioned, you mentioned Burro, and that also comes to mind of like, okay, you mentioned not everything is these big machines, but also the assisted aspect of industrial autonomy and truly smart, AI-driven, sort of smart, augmented. So if you mix those into the mix, that’s a game changer too. We just have machines that are carrying the crops that we’re picking, and we’re augmenting the workers, and we’re reducing some of their load at the same time. What about in this space, we know that things are moving fast, and safety is still a big deal. But there’s a perception that how do you run fast and also be safe at the same time, especially when humans are involved? What are your thoughts on the topic as far as safety and innovation, how you balance the two?

Alex Foessel – 00:19:39:

If we look at the history of autonomous automotive, we have seen a number of steps forward and some steps back. And I’m thinking of the more recent cases where a city would just rescind the driver’s license of an autonomous car fleet to operate. So I believe that this is really important that we continue working as an off-road industry. Let’s say ag, for example, or construction in bringing the best approaches, thoughts, and also standardization as it relates to how you bring safety forward. And what I’m thinking is that typically you’re going to see each company touting and promoting, hey, our machine is more productive. Our machine is easier to use. Our machine uses less fuel. So all of these elements of value proposition are important, but very seldom you’re going to see anyone say, hey, our machine is the same. Because that puts you in a very delicate position. But what I’ve seen is that in the past, the industry has come together to actually create standards for safety. And it’s not being different as we talk about safety and autonomy. So, for example, we see that there are standards related to the functional safety of ag equipment. Let’s say ISO 25119. But now the industry is working and creating and very close to publishing. The first standard for Ag, as it relates to the safety of the intended function, as known as SOTIF, right? Well, ISO 18497 is going to come out and it’s going to provide a standardized way in how you approach safety. I think that these are all really good things. But I’m going to also take advantage and say maybe the main point to keep in mind is safety is not an afterthought. If you build a robot that does something in ag and you believe that after that you’re going to just make it safe, then that is the wrong approach. You need to start considering safety from the beginning, from where you’re thinking about customer needs, the requirements, and then start thinking of how your architecture is going to be prepared to be tested and have performance levels in terms of safety that are going to A, get A safe machine out there. And B, if you ever find yourself in court, you’re going to have an invincible, argumentative, and well-sustained and demonstrated documentation. So to answer your question, I think it’s A question of participating in the standard groups, make sure that you start with safety first, and that your product development is going to be thinking about that along the way in A fairly structured and documented way.

Jeff Dance – 00:22:12:

That makes sense. I think the future of robotics is different than it has been in the last 30 years. It’s A lot more together with humans. And so I think how we design these machines with intent and integration, and that comes with more standards, right? More safety considerations, for sure. It’s fun to see all the advances in computer vision and how helping machines see and recognize things around them can also advance beyond just the sensor aspect, which can be helpful, but not always precise.

Alex Foessel – 00:22:38:

And that actually connects to part of the challenge that is emerging, right? So I was part of the Association of Equipment Manufacturers Product Safety and Stewardship Conference this week. And one of the topics, there were at least three topics talking about artificial intelligence. And the challenge is that that is such a vast concept that sometimes we just cross each other because we are not talking about the same thing. So part of the challenge was, okay, so what type of AI are you talking about? And this is one speaker. What type of AI am I talking about? And what type of AI the other fellow was talking about? So we finally decided to have a common graph that we present in each one of our presentations and say, I’m covering this area here. He was covering this area here and then this other area here, right?

Jeff Dance – 00:23:23:

Such a broad word with so many applications, especially when you start mixing in both software and hardware and data and whether you’re creating it, whether you’re using it, whether it’s the generative AI aspect, whether it’s the computer vision aspect, whether it’s the reinforcement learning, the traditional AI/ML. Like. It’s so broad and people don’t get that, but everyone’s excited about generative AI, right? And I think that’s put a new face on sort of AI. As we think about the future more, you know, we talked about the growing need of the population. You mentioned the population, you know, growing by 50%. And at the same time, we have less and less workers that are trained or interested in being on farms. So we fast forward 10 to 20 years from now, as we think about the future, what do you envision the future looking like? And what do you think will be big changes from where we are today?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:24:13:

There’s a couple of scenarios, right? So first of all, I think that there are two areas to work. So I mentioned there’s labor scarcity and labor readiness or awareness or knowledge. So until the robots come, which you and I know we’re in the industry, we know that they will come. But until then, maybe the most important, a single area where you can create a function step of increase of productivity in agriculture is training. So for that, just. An anecdote. I have been investing in startups in Brazil that are focused in providing training in a significantly easier way through cell phones to make sure that we bring the knowledge of how to operate to more and more people that are available in rural areas. An example of a new components of workforce in Brazil, for example, is a large number of women who come and run large pieces of equipment. And guess what? They do that very well. Sometimes with significantly more care. So providing them the tools to learn, to get trained and to actually deliver is one side of the equation. The other one has to do with overcoming the difficulties to adopt autonomous technology. And there’s a couple of things there. One of them we talk already is about safety because that is important. Both from just doing the right thing, bringing safe equipment to the market. But also there is the piece that relates to, and you alluded to this, how machines are going to be collaborating with humans. Those companies that provide an easier way for machines to interact with everyone else in the farm. So whenever there is, let’s say, an autonomous sprayer, you’re going to have a tendering truck. You’re going to have a mechanic that needs to approach the machine. Maybe there is a supervisor that wants to ride on the machine for some time. So I think that the industry and each company need to provide with a very easy language for the automation, communication, state and intention. In other words, am I safe to approach? And this is what I’m going to do. So I think that that’s one important piece there.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:26:18:

So one is the labor readiness and training. Like how do you get the labor force sort of trained on all these new approaches that are coming? And then another big thing is for the harmony of basically the workers and the machines working together. The systems and tools that enable that sort of communication intent. So they can commingle and have an understanding of who does what essentially in what sequence. Is that a good summary?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:26:42:

So if you think of those two and fast forward, right? We’re going to see increasing trained labor available. Not more necessarily, but some. And then machines with which these workers can interact and collaborate. And these autonomous machines are going to start taking the brunt of the work out there.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:27:02:

We’ve seen a huge advance in the last year. We put a conference on with Microsoft on generative AI for robotics recently. I had a lot of industry leaders come together and talk about that. But in our own testing, you know, just the ability to communicate with a machine through generative AI and know what it’s capable of, like, and be able to instruct it to do something because you can actually connect into the components. That’s been like a game changing thing for us to think about, like how that can change the interaction with machines and also the ability to send a type of Alexa type voice command where the machine actually follows through on something. Do you see that interaction actually coming to pass in the ag in the future? Do you think you mentioned it’s one thing to like pass a task back and forth? We’re like, okay, you go do all these things and we’re going to bring some humans and they come in that do these things and then the machines are going to take back over. And there’s a sort of harmony of work. But do you envision the communication, like being able to talk to machines and say, hey, go do this, go do that? You see that as a thing coming for Ag?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:27:58:

Actually, maybe I have a couple of examples on how generative AI is going to help both the readiness of the talent of the workforce as well as the automation. Developing material and content to train someone in how to use a sprayer usually takes a lot of time of someone explaining this. Someone is taking a video. There’s a script. The person reads the script, gold walks around the machine or points of different things. And then you need to do that in English, in Portuguese, in Spanish, Portuguese in Spanish for Latin America. Well, all that today is done at least by one of the companies that I have invested in just by using generative AI. And the same person now creates a render video in Spanish, another one in Portuguese, another in English. Right. And the communication is even better because it’s more consistent. The tone, the cadence, the pronunciation, the pointing is even better. So the quality of the training, the content that is coming out, that is being delivered to the operators is becoming better. So that is one side. On the counter side, one of the key things that I believe comes out of using generative AI in terms of language is that those agents learn how people talk in their natural language. And some of the challenges for, to actually program and enable a robot to communicate is that attempting to mimic the language of a farmer in the south of Brazil, central Brazil, Argentina, and the Midwest is going to be very difficult if you wanted to capture that into the encoding of the machine talking. But I anticipate, based on the capabilities that we have seen up until now, that we’re going to see that AI is going to be very naturally picked up quickly what the language is. And establish that intuitive communication that you and I just discussed as being a potential barrier for adoption.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:29:54:

That makes a lot of sense to me. There’s so many natural things that happen. There’s communication that happens when people are on top of machines operating them. It’s like, hey, stop. Or hey, you know, and you’re trying to communicate sometimes. But it seems like if we can make that natural, it’s going to be, I think, a huge game-changing thing. And to your point of being able to be multilingual and articulate and efficient right from the get-go for the world’s adoption, that sounds incredible. As far as technologies, you know, as we think to the future, we’re starting to talk about AI a little bit. What other big technologies do you see making this future happen where we have major advancements? What else is going to kind of come together?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:30:30:

Let me step back. Let’s think of a very simple way of talking about the value chain of food. You have before the farm, you have at the farm, and you have after the farm. So you and I have been talking most of what happens at the farm, and I just alluded to the efficiency of the logistic chain after the farm. But all of the increases in yield don’t come just from robotic or AI technology. They come from genetics, better seeds, for example, provide drought resistance. It comes from better chemicals that apply very precisely, can help us contain disease in the crops. It comes from fertilizers that are significantly more targeted, and also of a second type of fertilizers, because typically we think of chemical fertilizers, potassium, nitrogen. I’m talking of all of the developments of biological inputs to improve the soil health that are going to create an environment for these plants to thrive. Significantly more and be much more efficient at the absorption of nutrients from and water from the soil. So how do you develop all of those? Well, you have test farms, right? So I just wanted to put the attention that what is happening in the test farms of the seed producers, the fertilizer producers, and the chemical producers, but also all of these newer bio fertilizers, I’m going to call them, that are going beyond the chemistry. They’re going into the biology. I think that those are technologies that are going to create significant increases in the yield to feed the world.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:32:06:

Innovation around the entire ecosystem, essentially. Each piece in the ecosystem as you improve, it can have a dramatic impact. And when they’re working together, you’re bringing all these smart things together. Bio aspects, you know, automation, the human robot integration, I would assume water. I’ve just seen so many different advancements in water alone, like how you feed water. And we, we see how it’s been done for a long time, right? Especially probably in South America, you see how they still flood the crops down there.

Alex Foessel – 00:32:32:

Yeah. Irrigation drip tape, for example, where you apply by drop by drop.

Jeff Dance – 00:32:37:

I’m seeing the vision. It’s fun to hear it from you. As far as the specific robot autonomy, we still haven’t seen robotics take off not as fast as we thought it would be if we look back at the last 30 years. Do you think there’s going to be a major resurgence in the next five, where that’s going to change the economy with ag kind of leading the way? Are we at that point now? Because if I go back five years, the projections from five years ago didn’t quite come to pass, although we’re seeing change. And I’m wondering if AI is the new accelerator. So from your vantage, do you think that we’re going to see some of these major movements in the next five years?

Alex Foessel – 00:33:12:

I think that there’s going to be a large adoption of what I would consider perhaps smaller robots. I’m going to talk about Burro as one example, there are others. Another company I would like to call your attention is Solinftec, a Brazilian company that is developing these solar power robots that just roam. Initially, they are out there to gather data, but more and more they’re going to be spraying precisely and doing some other agronomic. So those are two companies that for sure are going to have several hundred robots in the market working, not tests, but actually sold. Now, when we think of the adoption of large equipment, I think that that is going to be more gradual. But that’s not the case. This may change. There may be some surprises. If I work, for example, to compare the barriers to entry in, let’s talk Brazil and the U.S., for example. In the U.S., the business risk that comes from product liability is significant. So companies are very slowly deploying robots, making sure that they are extra cautious in how it happens. So let’s say we don’t see those steps back that automotive has seen. But there are some other countries, others geographies where the adoption of technology is significantly faster, let me give you an example, Brazil, when in 20 years, from, maybe 5% of mechanites sugar cane operations, I’m talking of, 9 million hectares. 95% of merchandized harvesting and in soulely in 20 years, that was brutally fast, right? So to the extent that the Ag equiptment manufacturers, bring the technology in a way that farmers don’t need to reinvest in these capital assets. I mean, switch to complete, but actually bring more like a retrofit approach. I anticipate that we may see some surprises like in Brazil, where the product liability is not as big of a business risk as it is in the U.S.

Jeff Dance – 00:35:11:

Makes sense. It’s going to be fun to watch and to be part of. Any other thoughts on the future as we think about the future of Ag? What else comes to mind?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:35:19:

I think that. Working in an area where you feed the world or shelter the world or enable, I’m thinking of construction a bit, it’s just a fantastic endeavor. It’s positive anywhere you want to look at it. And when we apply, in the case of Ag, technology to mitigate some of the challenges that growers have, improve the amount of food that we’re producing, reducing the amount of chemicals, dealing with some of these climate changes, bringing better quality food to our tables, that is going to continue driving and I expect the attention of more and more people to this field. For example, I’m really excited that last week we had the first Ag and Robotics Summit in Pittsburgh. And that was a really fantastic effort that gathered OEMs, gathered associations, co-ops, growers, and many of the companies that do technology, robotics, AI, et cetera, in Pittsburgh to have a conversation about it’s time to put much more focus on agriculture. So I think that this is just a sign of times to come when working in Ag will become each time something that is going to interest more people. And I’m really excited about that.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:36:33:

It’s awesome that you bring all this experience and you’re also still in the space working on cutting edge aspects of it. I’m kind of bummed I didn’t make it to that conference because it sounds like a fun one. I was recently at a robotics event down in Pittsburgh and it was fun to be there. What other advancements in farming are you personally most excited about or have we already covered those?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:36:54:

We covered a few, but I’m going to switch briefly to my own turf. I’m thinking that, for example, in managing animals, cattle, and try to understand how do they eat, how to optimize the way they eat, etc. Take care of them to anticipate when they’re sick and do animal care. I know that there’s some emerging technology with collars that are tracking position, health, etc. I’m really excited that the price point seems to be coming to the point that has a good return on the investment. So that is one area. The other one, going back to crops, as I think of row crops, more and more mechanical operations become viable now because the robots are doing that. So now, for example, we think removal using mechanical means or electrical means. I think that that is going to be great because it’s going to be less chemicals used. And the other that I believe is going to be, we’re just seeing the tip of it, is some ways to autonomously harvest fruits. That’s still based in human hands. And we have been visiting some of the labs here at Carnegie Mellon, and I’m sure in many other locations. And there are some really good advances into how you actually pick fruit without damaging it. I think that we’re going to have better tasting fruit. There’s going to be less damage because these technologies are advancing to provide a better quality harvest.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:38:22:

What’s been rewarding for you to be in this space? And as you think about the future, what’s kind of keeping you so excited to stay in it?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:38:30:

The opportunity. The opportunity and also because I believe that we are at least in the area where I have the most experience. I’m thinking of automation and robotics. I know that it will sound, well, we said that five years ago. But five years ago, I would have told you we’re not ready. I think that we’re getting close to the point where the intersection of mature technology, price points, let’s say computing capacity, the demand, and also the progress that we’re making in defining the safety case for off-road operations. So all of these pieces are in place. I anticipate that we’re going to start seeing people making good money out of deploying automation and autonomy in that. So that gets me really excited.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:39:15:

There’s so many exciting things coming together to really move the needle for the world and make a meaningful difference. Every point that you just mentioned really resonated with me as far as the confluence of things that are coming together to be able to make this really grow in the future.

 

Alex Foessel – 00:39:27:

Okay, so typically you see excitement on technology companies, some exciting in the innovation groups in large companies. But last AGRITECHNICA in Germany and some specific client visits that I’ve made recently in the Chicago area are showing the following. Now it is the supplier base that is getting excited about this. The supplier base is putting forward components, motors, processors, displays, etc. And how they’re promoting those, these are going to be the elements that you’re going to need to build your next fully automated autonomous piece of ag equipment. So when the supply base is starting to get excited about it and asking and just promoting that, that to me is a sign of industry maturity in the area. And this is not anymore a lab experiment. So we see some good signs that show from the industry that this is becoming real.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:40:21:

So Alex, as we think about the future, I’ve really enjoyed your perspectives and expertise. If I’m a farmer or if I’m an OEM thinking about getting more involved or supplier, where can I look for more insights, whether that’s events or publications? Any thoughts there?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:40:36:

Yeah, if you come to mind. So first, I would say FIRA, F-I-R-A. That’s going to be a robotics-focused Ag, of course, fair that is going to happen in October 2nd to 24th at Sacramento, California. I have been there in the past. They make a really good job into bringing OEMs, industry experts, including even policy, and also they bring the growers. So that is a very good intersection of the three, and I would recommend going to Sacramento. That is one. But if you wanted to go and take a look at a broad description and articles related to that, I would recommend futurefarming.com. You’re going to find even there, like, I think that they’re a bit too early, but even robot buying recommendations and guide, right? So not all of the robots there are in the same level of maturity, but you’re going to see a good description. And if you are interested to follow the money, I would say AgFunder News. That is also another place that I would. As it relates to other events, I would say if you are in Brazil or going, next week we have AgriShow, one of the largest by far Ag fair in South America, and you’re going to see, a number of robots coming from OEMs, smaller, et cetera. And then, of course, drones and many others. And of course, I would strongly recommend to consider attending AGRITECHNICA in Hanover in November of 2025. Not this year, but next year.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:42:06:

Awesome. Thanks for those recommendations. Just to wrap up, any other thoughts on the future that come to mind?

 

Alex Foessel – 00:42:12:

Come and join. Come and play. Let’s talk.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:42:14:

It’s a fun space to envision and it really affects all of us. We all are eating every day and we’ve seen such a widespread variety of imports over the years. And we kind of have this global economy. But as things change, as things grow, and we have sustainability and worker shortages. Maturing technology and new AI, all of this stuff comes together and it’s kind of a really fun space to be part of. So I appreciate your leadership in the space and for joining us today. Really enjoyed having you, Alex.

 

Alex Foessel – 00:42:43:

Thank you. It has been very pleasurable for me as well. Really good conversation.

 

Jeff Dance – 00:42:49:

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