In this episode of The Future Of, host Jeff Dance is joined by Johnny Rodriguez and Charlie Kurian to discuss the future of fan engagement in the sports industry. The conversation explores how emerging technologies like AI, AR, and VR are shaping the way fans interact with their favorite sports and teams, creating a more personalized and immersive experience. The guests also delve into the ethical considerations and the importance of inclusive design in the evolving landscape of fan engagement.

The Future of Fan Engagement – Transcript:

Jeff Dance: In this episode of The Future Of, we’re joined by Charlie Kurian, Director of Innovation and Strategy for the Spurs, a five-time NBA championship team. We’re also joined by Johnny Rodriguez, Fresh’s Senior Director of Innovation and Head of Fresh Labs. We’re here to talk about the future of sports and fan engagement. Guys, welcome.

Charlie Kurian: Thank you for having me.

Johnny Rodriguez: Yes, thanks for having us here.

Jeff Dance: I want to give a little bit of a brief background and then I’d love to hear more about your journey as well. At the Spurs, Charlie is responsible for driving innovation through artificial intelligence, behavioral science, design thinking, and immersive technologies like VR, MR, and AR. So we definitely speak the same language. Over the last decade, Charlie’s work in technology, sports, and venture capital placed him at the forefront of emerging technology, including recently generative AI. With quite a bit of experience, I think over 10 years in venture capital, consumer tech, SaaS, and even helping with incubation, Charlie’s design thinking-driven solutions have, from our understanding, generated over $500 million in revenue and have been replicated by renowned organizations such as the NBA and the Robert F. Kennedy Center of Justice. So a lot of significant accomplishments, especially in this kind of intersection of technology and sports, where we’re thinking about the future of fan engagement. I’m grateful to have you here with all that depth, Charlie.

For Johnny, Johnny’s been with Fresh for over 10 years. He’s our Fresh Senior Director of Innovation and, as I mentioned, Head of Fresh Labs, which is an innovation arm that focuses on prototyping, educating, and building with emerging technologies, many of the same emerging technologies that Charlie is also leading on. As part of the learning and education efforts, Fresh Labs has reached over six million people, creating, I think, over 300 pieces of thought leadership. Johnny is also the co-founder of Brancher.ai, which is a no-code platform pioneering the democratization of generative AI by branching different models together and equipping both technical people and non-technical people to use AI. We’ve used that in our work together with Charlie as well. The platform has over 130,000 users and is growing and is soon to be also an enterprise platform as well, which is where generative AI is going.

That’s making a big impact in sports. That’s some high-level background, but guys, tell me more. Charlie, if I can start with you, tell me more about your journey, personally, getting into sports innovation and fan experience.

Charlie Kurian: Yeah, thank you, Jeff, for that wonderful intro. I never intended to start in the sport innovation field. That was never the end game or the plan. I like to say that I accidentally stumbled upon it. The way that I think about it is there’s a healthy part of my brain that is very creative, which is the whole design thinking, human, empathetic, understanding people side of it. But then there’s a healthy part of my brain, which is very analytical and numbers-driven. I’ve always been on a quest to merge those two. Quite literally, that’s resulted in the wonderful opportunity to have been part of organizations that have been super disruptive, as in even if that’s Apple or how the NBA has been leading things on the forefront of international development in the sport landscape, or even something like taking bets on the fastest growing startups in venture capital. That disruptive mindset collided with the passion of having grown up playing sports and really loving sports. When the opportunity presented itself to join a wonderful organization with such a level of success and be part of their story and leading them to the future, it felt like a perfect merge of background, interests, passions, and here we are.

Jeff Dance: Nice, that’s exciting. What do you do for fun?

Charlie Kurian: I’m a washed-up athlete. I did have a short stint as a professional soccer player. Anything that gets me out and if I can be competitive and still play a sport, my wife would say she loses me to those things. Other than that, a lot of people don’t know this, but I have a parallel life where I’m an audio engineer. I produce big events and go on tours with big artists that we’ve all heard of. I mix front of house and a whole bunch of production stuff. That’s another passion of mine. Between those two things, it keeps me busy.

Jeff Dance: Hey man, you’re multi-dimensional. You would fit really well here at Fresh. We’ve got a lot of left brain, right brain people that cross the spectrum frequently and are multi-talented. Johnny’s one of those. Johnny, over to you. Tell us a bit more about your experience. I know you’ve been here over a decade and you started as a designer and developer and then kind of grew into our Director of Innovation. Love to hear more about your journey.

Johnny Rodriguez: Yeah, I’d be more than happy to do that. And by the way, Charlie, we’re going to have to connect on that audio engineering side. For all the time we’ve worked together, I didn’t know about that part of your background. So we’re going to have to overlap there a little bit. But yeah, I’d be happy to share more about my background. I would say staying on top of the latest emerging technology has always been part of my hobbies and I would say part of my DNA, being an early adopter of tech. I’ve always tried to infuse that with anything I’ve done, whether that’s design or development work, and then just trying to help educate and share that with my project teams, functional teams, and beyond. This is why my journey at Fresh has been so dynamic and deeply fulfilling for me. I joined Fresh over 10 years ago and came into this design and development role focused on creating engaging and intuitive user experiences. Moving into more design and development leadership roles allowed me to work on bigger, more complex projects that require a blend of creative and technical expertise. Developing a sense for how to balance aesthetics with functionality is something I think Charlie was talking about. Being in this role is an incredible opportunity. I get to spearhead initiatives that drive internal and external product development and experiment with and integrate cutting-edge technologies like AI, generative AI, AR, and VR. This approach has been really fulfilling. That’s a little bit of a view into my background in this decade here at Fresh Consulting.

Jeff Dance: Thank you. Johnny’s definitely very multi-dimensional, Charlie. You’ll have to ask him about his semi-professional beatboxing career. He’s also a member of our Fresh band. It’s fun to hang out with him. Thanks for the background.

Let’s dive into the current state of fan engagement, some of the things we’re hearing, and then move our way into the future. Laying the groundwork for why fan engagement matters so much, Deloitte did a recent study that said more than 60% of fans say a great year-round experience would make them more likely to be engaged with the team in the coming season. And 55% said it would make them more likely to purchase a ticket in the future. There’s a lot of interest around fan engagement. They also said that those who engage only once a month in the off-season spend 40% more than fans who have no engagement in the off-season. So there’s obviously an interest from those who own sports teams or are involved with sports to make those connections because that engagement creates more community, revenue, and opportunities to connect with sports. For a lot of people, sports are almost like religion. It’s their lifeblood, part of the family DNA. A lot of fights can happen over this worldwide. People even get killed; it’s so deeply personal to them. This engagement matters so much. We have so many tools and dynamic things happening. The engagement is upleveling in so many different ways.

But Charlie, for you, how would you define fan engagement? Can you give us some examples across the spectrum of not just the physical but also the digital experience?

Charlie Kurian: I think for me, fan engagement starts with a deep curiosity. It’s about understanding the existing or new behaviors of who we call our fans and how people like to move between those behaviors. Then, brands like us, Spurs, or any pro sports team can develop very genuine and authentic experiences that enable the behaviors and connect them to whatever they’re fans of. At a high level, that’s really what I think it is. Examples that we all know: physical, the best way, right? Like stepping into an arena and actually watching a game and experiencing and taking in every single thing. That is a way of fan experience. Another example is buying merch to celebrate and show my peers. I mean, I’m wearing one, right? Love the WNBA right now. I know it’s at an all-time high. But as a father of a daughter, I relate to it and what that means for her. So that’s me expressing my fandom and them engaging me very well. It doesn’t stop at the physical realm. There are digital ways to engage that we are all familiar with. You can go on any of your social media profiles, and the content you engage in, how you react, and how you share that across and broadcast with your own voice is another way. Then there are more cutting-edge ways of engaging, like betting your resources on the outcomes. So it’s kind of a wide divide from one end to the other.

Jeff Dance: Thank you. Tell us more about some of the things that the Spurs are doing, either piloting or experimenting with, maybe some things that have been successful or new.

Charlie Kurian: Yeah, I think, especially since the time that I’ve been on, one of the things that I really love about the Spurs is that they don’t get enough credit for this. And I’m not saying this because I work there, but there is almost a daily conflict on, “Hey, what are our fans saying? What are we hearing from them?” And the healthy tension between all of the emerging things that are coming and then folks grounding us in asking, “Is that what our fans are saying? Or what are we hearing that’s leading us to believe that this is actually what they need?”

Quite literally, an example of something that we piloted alongside Fresh is something called Fan GPT. As the GPT craze was blooming towards the end of last year, we were, I believe, one of the first ones to think about how it would be incredibly amazing and engaging to put a kiosk that leverages some search functionality and some GPT functionality so that anybody on the concourse walking by can search whatever they want about the arena or the game and actually take those results to their phone. But we had an incredible insight as we tested that along. We realized that the search functionality was primarily used for people just wanting to know where the bathroom was or where the closest Pizza Hut was. From qualitative understanding, we learned that fans in a loud environment, where they came for the excitement of the game and to see their players, were not really interested in standing in the hallway and typing on a big screen for answers. So, great technology, but the learning was that it was probably not the right usage. But that’s one area where we were quick to test and pilot something, but then relentless about listening to feedback and iterating.

Jeff Dance: Nice, nice. That follows the design thinking approach for sure. That’s great. You know, I heard that you guys both recently worked on something that tied physical and digital together in this emerging technology space. Johnny, can you give us some more background on that project and the kind of milestones or results you saw from it?

Johnny Rodriguez: Yeah, I’ll give you an overview of what it was. I know, Charlie, you can probably fill in some of the results and how it was received. It was an incredible fan engagement initiative from the San Antonio Spurs where we had an opportunity to collaborate and build with the recently launched Apple Vision Pro, one of the highest quality and immersive XR headsets on the market now from a consumer side. There was an opportunity to engage with fans and create an experience that was extremely high-end, allowing fans to engage with some of the actual players, starters of the San Antonio Spurs. The experience allowed a fan, at South by Southwest and some of the games in Austin, to put on the Apple Vision Pro, go through a minute-long onboarding to track where they’re clicking on different elements of the screen and see where their eyes are looking. There’s a lot of unique features with Apple Vision Pro. As soon as they jumped into the experience, they were able to see a 3D version of some of their favorite players, with intentional animation built in to bring that to life. Paired with the realism of the Apple Vision Pro, it made for a really incredible experience to walk up and compare your height to some of these incredibly tall basketball players. It also allowed fans to get proximity using spatial environments and have some closeness to these players. It showcased how advanced AR can bring fans closer to the action and is a fantastic example of how the San Antonio Spurs are leveraging cutting-edge technology to enhance fan interaction and engagement. In my opinion, it’s setting a new standard for sports marketing and fan engagement.

Jeff Dance: Thanks for sharing that. Thanks for these particular examples. I can see where, you know, if you can compare yourself to a player and be more up close and personal, where that would otherwise be hard, I can see how that could be a cool home experience as well. Being able to talk to that person and embody their personality with generative AI would probably be another next step that would be really interesting, obviously with their permission. But those are pretty cool examples. As we think about some of the bigger things that are happening with fan engagement as it’s evolving, what are you guys seeing as big themes? Charlie, for you, what are some of the biggest ways that things are trending right now?

Charlie Kurian: Yeah, I think that’s an excellent question. It’s one that I know I personally am thinking of every day. I think it’s interesting going back to what I initially said about the behaviors of fans. I think it’s interesting to see what we’re seeing quite literally from the behaviors of our fans. So I’ll paint a little bit of context on the front end. Everybody knows we onboarded a generational talent last year, Victor Wembanyama. And in the wake of that, we have seen an incredible uptake and a shift in our fan base. Our fans have grown much younger by about 10 to 15 years, from a season average standpoint. So quite literally, we’ve been thinking about “How do we welcome this new wave of fans, but more importantly, how do we retain them?”

To that end, what we embarked on last year was a thorough understanding of what they value and what they really care about. We’re in an ongoing pursuit of that. As we see behaviors, some things that jump top of mind are the coming generation or even millennials down to Gen Z. We’re seeing that their behaviors show they consume content in multimodal and omnichannel ways. They may not always be the first ones to get to the arena and be there for the entire game. Let’s say even in a global landscape, they may not view the game end to end. They’re more so the folks that are going to be on Instagram watching a highlight of a dunk, and they’re going to immediately take that, tag somebody or share that, jump modes and jump into an NBA 2K game, try out that team, try out that player and play with them. They may also jump modes to see if they can bet on it, or cross over to buy merch, whether from the direct fan shop or even cross-related. So we’re seeing this onboarding of all these different modes. For us, it’s top of mind to create an ecosystem and find the technology and tools that enable us to support these behaviors we’re seeing on multiple fronts. I’m incredibly excited about how the behaviors and patterns are changing and actively thinking about how AI and other innovations enable us to support these behaviors, allowing fans to digest content on their own time, on demand, wherever and however they want.

Jeff Dance: Yeah, yeah. It’s fascinating to think about all the different engagement patterns that are emerging and how the revenue is probably shifting across that entire spectrum as well. Johnny, what are your thoughts on the biggest ways fan engagement has evolved recently?

Johnny Rodriguez: Yeah, that’s a great question. And I love that context you gave, Charlie, about how younger fans are experiencing and engaging with professional sports, specifically with the Spurs. The perspective I’m coming from is definitely more on the technology side. I’m seeing the evolution and the incremental progress we’re witnessing almost daily, if not weekly, with AI and XR. From a technology standpoint, as this becomes more advanced, I’m seeing a big wave of more personalization and more control given to the fan. AI is allowing teams and organizations to analyze vast amounts of data in ways that weren’t possible in the past, enabling them to understand individual fan preferences and behaviors. This allows for the creation of highly tailored content. Charlie mentioned sharing a dunk on Instagram; this level of personalized highlight reels, customized marketing efforts, and overall fan experience improvements is significant. On the AR and VR side of things, immersive technologies are making it possible for fans to be closer to the action in ways they couldn’t in the past. These are the categories that come to mind with that question.

Jeff Dance: Thanks for sharing. This brings us nicely into the future. Let’s talk about that. Charlie, as we fast forward 10 to 20 years, how do you see fan engagement and the fan experience evolving?

Charlie Kurian: Such a tough question, Jeff. I feel like I’m struggling to keep up with the advancements over the last six months. But it’s an equally exciting question. Some things are top of mind, especially from observing how fellow investors are betting on companies. That’s usually a good trend for understanding where the world is headed. Something Johnny touched on is the ability to consume content and view experiences differently, getting closer to the play, so to speak. One example we’re considering piloting is with the coming of Apple Vision Pro and other VR/AR headsets. Over time, as the cost barrier decreases and adoption increases, someone sitting in my hometown in India could have a courtside experience of a Spurs game without leaving their house. It’s important to note that this doesn’t mean live experiences will go away. Live experiences are crucial because sport is as much about community as it is about consuming content. However, the ability to give 90% of Spurs fans, who will never enter an arena, that experience is incredibly exciting. Hyper-personalized content will change things significantly. Apps will likely become one-stop shops, blending various functions into super personalized content based on my mood and preferences. Engaging with favorite players on demand and having conversations with them will also be possible.

From a commentary standpoint, we will be able to deliver precise data and predictions, helping people digest content in new ways. As headsets become smaller, even in an arena, fans could see real-time data on players, enhancing their understanding of the game. As a student of the game, I may want to understand how Kobe Bryant would break down a play, while a peer there for social reasons just wants to know the player’s name. Another peer interested in betting would want real-time data to place bets. It’s very exciting, and you can tell from my tone. This wave of AI is incredibly bullish for the future of engagement and content consumption.

Jeff Dance: So a big merge of the digital and physical experiences, afar and up close, not just afar but also in the real-time environment, bringing in that additional data or engagement or intel or connection. Nice. Johnny, what are your thoughts as we think about the future, kind of 10 to 20 years from now?

Johnny Rodriguez: Yeah, as I think about the future and the technologies that will be pivotal for shaping the future of fan engagement, the categories that immediately come to mind, especially in stadiums, are definitely biometric technologies. These technologies will make access to clubs and entrances really seamless and frictionless. We see those today, but in 20 years, I think we will see full adoption where having any type of physical ticket will be completely optional. People will be able to move around freely in a frictionless way. As we think about the roughly 90% of fans who are not going into the stadiums, the categories that come to mind align with some of what Charlie was mentioning, namely extended reality (XR), including augmented and virtual reality.

I’m excited to see the evolution of VR. Today, you can sit and see a 180-degree view of a game, whether you’re under the basket for the NBA or at half-court. For football games, they can position you at the 50-yard line. There is some level of that today, but I think we will see deeper immersion, as Charlie was talking about, around VR experiences. This will really revolutionize the way you watch some of the games, especially as camera quality improves and latency decreases. This leads me to connectivity; the higher speeds of connectivity, such as 5G, will enable more real-time interactive experiences like multi-angle replays and live stats. If anyone saw the World Cup a few years ago, fans in the stadium in Qatar could hold up their phones and use augmented reality to see players running on the field, view their speeds, and identify open areas—all in real-time. This type of technology allows you to see new angles.

I’m also hoping that as we watch these experiences on our televisions at home, we get more control over the angles we want to watch the games from. This season in the NBA, we’ve seen games where a few cameras in the stadium recreate in 3D what’s happening on the basketball court, providing 360-degree or 180-degree views of players dunking. In the NFL, there’s collaboration with Disney. For example, in mid-October, the Falcons versus Jaguars game was televised with a Toy Story theme. The players looked like Toy Story characters, creating an immersive experience. These technologies are all coming together to create really immersive experiences. Those are the few things that come to mind. I’m sure we could discuss more, but those are the ones I’m most excited about and hoping to keep an eye on. I’m also hoping to help shape these advancements through our collaboration with the San Antonio Spurs and sports in general, helping to move the needle there.

Jeff Dance: Nice. I hadn’t thought about how much personalization you could have or how much creativity you can have. Obviously, when you overlay the data from the analytical or sports betting side or visuals from a creative side, the options are endless, especially with all the new camera tech that makes things so much more visible and real from afar. That’s great. And that leads me to the stat that I read about the Sports Business Institute saying that nearly 90% of fans watching a live sports broadcast also use a secondary screen for things like social media, chatting, email, consuming news, et cetera. Charlie, you were talking about jumping between experiences. So 90% of people are essentially jumping. Do we think that behavior will continue or with some of this new immersive technology, will some of that go away? Any thoughts on that, Charlie?

Charlie Kurian: Yeah, I think, I mean, I’m bullish on the pattern of digesting content on multiple platforms continuing. I think the need to switch devices and technologies and consume that, I think will go away. And to Johnny’s point, I think it’ll just become a seamless experience. What I want to consume, where I want to consume, I think we’ll get to a point where it’ll all be just in front of me. I just need to be able to pick. I don’t have to check out, turn my eyes away, and pick something else up.

Jeff Dance: Right. It’s more integrated to kind of where you are at present. That’s kind of my philosophy as well. Like I feel like, you know, screens have gotten narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow into these small devices that these computers we carry in our pocket. But I think as we have more immersive technologies, more AR, then I think we come back to like widening out into more natural experiences, especially with the advent of AI, where that is the new UI. In a sense, but we’re not limited to smaller screens. So I resonate with that.

What about, do we risk losing any of the in-fan experience, like particularly on-site, or does that become like a premium offering that’s just sort of integrated? Any thoughts on, have you seen any trends related to in-fan engagement going away because you have so much to offer remote to the actual experience?

Charlie Kurian: Yeah, I think, no, we haven’t seen that at all. I think, and maybe some of that is because our fan base is still evolving and we’re quite early in this precipice of consumption of content in the way that we’re talking about. But more than ever, we’ve seen a premium on in-game elements. When people are there, they want to be there. They want to use their phones when they want to, but there is no way to compare both. It’s not.

Jeff Dance: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it seems like with the younger generation, they’re so stuck in their devices, the in-person engagement becomes like this new exciting thing that’s so immersive and real, right? It’s like, it’s the new thing, right? Where for a lot of us that didn’t have the immersive technology before, then that was just the normal, right? It’s like, yeah, we’re gonna go to a game. But this is like, no, this is a new premium offering. It’s real, right? We’re actually gonna go in person. Just comparing the two is kind of mind-boggling.

What about, it’s kind of a deeper topic, but when it comes to ethical considerations, data privacy, security, do you feel like we’re designing for a future that is accessible to a diverse range of fans?

Charlie Kurian: Yeah, I think this is something I think about a lot. In my household, if you consider me the pro-tech guy, my wife is probably the anti-tech person, and I feel like it’s so healthy because it grounds us really well, especially with our kids. So it’s something we think about a lot. At the end of the day, the way I think about it is any tool—AI, AR, VR, the explosion of all tech—is kind of like any other tool. It’s like the introduction of the iPhone. It is incredibly powerful, but it has the ability to be used in very destructive ways.

I personally would like to see more effort and intentionality behind creating it in a humane and human-centered way rather than leading with just the power and technology of it. I think there’s more opportunity to go there. And I think it starts with keeping centered around humans, how to keep them humane, how to drive their interests and behavior, and how to build connection through what we’re doing. If we stay grounded in that, we’ll be okay. But if we end up running behind just the tech and the power, staying one-dimensional in that way, we could end up in a pretty dangerous spot.

Jeff Dance: Yeah. Yeah. Johnny, what about you? Any thoughts on the topic?

Johnny Rodriguez: Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of discussion right now around the ethical use of AI. As I think about that particular category, a few areas come to mind similar to Charlie’s thoughts. Data privacy and security are critical; protecting fan data is crucial. While we can have more cameras in a stadium and create hyper-personalized experiences, ensuring transparent communication around how data is used and safeguarding personal information is essential.

Financial accessibility is also important. As these experiences become more available, it’s great to build for the Apple Vision Pro, but how do we make it affordable and accessible? Physical accessibility is another consideration. How do we make in-game experiences accessible for fans with disabilities or visual impairments? These are the categories I think about when considering the ethical implications of this technology.

Jeff Dance: Yeah. One thing I’ve been impressed with is how AR and VR devices help people with hearing or visual disabilities. Uber and Uber Eats changed the landscape for people with disabilities who had trouble getting around or couldn’t drive. With AI, there’s so much potential to help and do good, especially from a communication perspective. However, humans don’t always keep pace with technology; it evolves quickly and can shift our behavior before we realize it. Sometimes, we look around and notice that no one’s interacting anymore. It’s something we need to think about as we consider the future of the human-technology relationship.

In the context of sports, blending digital and physical experiences can bring people together, but we must also be mindful of ethical considerations. To round out this conversation, I’ve enjoyed your perspectives. Any other thoughts on the future of sports and fan engagement that you’re excited about or thinking about? Charlie?

Charlie Kurian: It’s been great to be here. We have so much to be excited about. As someone who loves sports and has seen their power, I want to continue being bullish about the sports landscape and how it changes lives. I love that technology is coming along to enable accessibility and increase the sense of belonging for people. I’m committed, as I know you guys are, to ensuring this is done in the safest way possible. There’s a lot to be excited about, a lot to think about, and a lot to work toward.

Jeff Dance: Nice. It’s great to have you at the ground level in motion, working on some of the things that will shape the future. Johnny, what about you?

Johnny Rodriguez: Yeah, so similar to Charlie, sports specifically have been such an ingrained part of my culture and my upbringing. I don’t think I’ve missed a Cowboys game my entire upbringing. I don’t think I’ve missed a Mavs game or a Spurs game in my upbringing. It was such a deeply integrated part of my family and the culture and the experience that I was able to have. To be able to see these advancements happening in technology and participate, play a part in that, and create new lifelong experiences and memories as this technology continues to advance is what I’m excited about.

I’m excited for a future in which my three kids will be more engaged and able to watch the same type of sporting events, but through the flavors they care about or with the voices they recognize. Hearing commentary from their dad or their grandpa, I think there’s a lot of possibilities that are going to be enabled. So I’m super excited about the advancement of these emerging technologies, seeing personalization at scale, getting to that real-time type of interaction and control for fans, and then seeing the evolution of the integration of generative AI and some of the capabilities that’s going to provide. It’s an exciting future ahead.

Jeff Dance: Awesome. One last question to finish up, and that is, as we think about the future of fan engagement, the future of sports, do you guys have any resources, any leaders, blogs, etc., things that people who are really passionate about this topic can look into for more inspiration? Any thoughts on where to go?

Charlie Kurian: Yeah, I think for me, if you are particularly passionate about finding the future of sport, I would actually encourage broader horizons and just find the future of where the world is headed. I feel like you’ll be able to weave the sport part right into that and consumption of content and entertainment. I follow Vinod Khosla, a very well-known investor, very bullish on some of the things he’s predicted and continues to predict. I also have my weekly dose of tuning into the All In pod and the four besties that are on there. It’s a great way to hear perspectives that are super divergent from people in different spaces influencing policies and how capital is being deployed. Those are two of my regular go-tos.

Jeff Dance: Thanks, Johnny. What about you?

Johnny Rodriguez: My recommendation would also be to broaden horizons and look at sports that you haven’t particularly focused on. Look at European clubs, look at F1 and some of the advancements happening there. Take a look at what’s happening with certain sports teams in the NFL and the NBA. Track what’s going on with the San Antonio Spurs and you’ll see the advancements happening there specifically around fan engagement. From a podcast standpoint, I really like the Lex Friedman podcast as he interviews a lot of technology leaders in this particular space. Some of the interviews he’s had with Andrej Karpathy and some of OpenAI’s leaders, Microsoft, a lot of these leaders in the AI and XR space are really fascinating. I try to stay on top of those and see what’s happening in that space as I listen to Lex Friedman’s podcast. Those are the few that come to mind.

Charlie Kurian: I will add one more thing. It has been very insightful for me to learn, as we’ve been working with a couple of generative AI startups that have come out of India, how that country has been leaning into the experimentation phase. In America, the general landscape, at least from a sports standpoint, has been slightly slower to adapt, for good reasons. We’ve been more careful about safety and privacy. But it has been mind-blowing to me how that country, from a political landscape to entertainment, media, film, and sport, has been adopting creative ways of deploying generative AI for campaigns and engagement. It is paying huge dividends for them. It’s something to watch out for. It’s something I’m personally excited about because it’s a country I grew up in, but more than that, lots to learn from in terms of folks that are quick to experiment and learn.

Jeff Dance: Awesome. I’ll have to check that out further. That makes sense with the distribution of the country and some of the lack of access to sports arenas, how that could be growing so quickly and how often technology can leap forward where previous infrastructure didn’t exist. We’ve seen a lot of that in other countries. Thank you both for your insights, expertise, and inspiration. I appreciate your leadership in not only emerging technology but also in sports. It’s going to be fun to see what we can create together. Thanks for being on the show.

Charlie Kurian: Thank you, guys. Thank you for the partnership.

Johnny Rodriguez: Yes, appreciate the time. Thank you.